Ashish Pherwani, Advisory Partner at Ernst & Young, and, Vinit Karnik, National Director – Entertainment, Sports & Live Events at GroupM, addressed the gathering of event organizers at the recently concluded EEMAGINE 2014 and exemplified the role of ROI in the Indian events space. Built on the surveys, discussions and estimates conducted by EY, Ashish conducted an elaborate discussion focused at the subject of ROI in the event space that Vinit supplemented with his insights. Demonstration of ROI by the event industry Having a creative edge over others may all be about the theme and concept but the business side should pertain to the parameters concerning ROI. Ashish began by explaining that 80% brands agreed to the fact that in case of better Return on Investment they would spend more on BTL. Moving further he showed that only 10% of the brands feel that their agencies adequately demonstrate ROI, whereas much larger than that, 30% felt that it does not at all. On the whole 60% perceived a weak approach towards ROI from their agency’s end. “TAM helped the industry much more than RAM”, said Ashish Pherwani. To back his judgment he further explained that one can measure and keep a track of each second and every move that takes place in a television. It thus provides a much larger perspective and deep understanding of ROI. Events ROI and related concerns Some considerations pertaining to the nature of events was then thrown light upon. A TV spot is same everywhere whereas an event happening across two locations can be entirely different. An event is based on the theme and the objective of the event agency. Thus to obtain a standard measure or even get an appropriate fixed rating is impossible in this case. He proceeded to explain that the event objective may vary as per the choice of the advertisers. One may look out for awareness whereas other may aim at high sales. The third case is when there are no advertisers. Such happens in the case of weddings and parties. Measurement framework On the basis of research by EY, in order to have fair measurement there should be a common platform incurring no added cost. This platform should be standard for each event objective. This measurement framework should meet specific requirement of every event sponsor making it optional, standard or customizable. The third idea that he stressed on was Validation. Ashish Pherwani said “If you need your event to be validated, your customer doesn’t trust you”. Validation should only be done when it is required. - See more at: http://everythingexperiential.com/event-measurement-roi-and-related-concerns-ashish-pherwani-ey-and-vinit-karnik-group-m/#sthash.Yy5xc35P.dpuf The hypothesis was substantiated with a close look into the functioning of B2C events. Summing up the research he explained the protocol of the B2C events space. Ashish concluded with the following suggestions mentioning the three key factors for the event agencies to keep in mind to attain better ROI in a span of one year. Vinit Karnik carried the discussion further throwing light on the evolution of sponsorship keeping in consideration a global perspective and the importance of measurement and evaluation in the event space. Categorizing the evolution of sponsorship, he explained- 1960-1970s: Brands aimed at establishing a logo as an identity. 1970-1990s: The age of multi sponsorship event model. 1990-2010s: The era of multi-sensory model with global sponsorship strategy. It was when a brand owned a space globally, for example Coca Cola owns FIFA, P&G owns CSR as a space worldwide. 2010- till date: The period of social era sponsorship. With changing times and scenario, brands are now looking at more ground-level activations and promotion through the digital medium to reach out to and engage their audience. Vinit Karnik comments that “We Indians are still happy being in the 1960’s to 70’s age of establishing logos. We would love to see a ROO driven industry. Adding to this he said, ‘We go wrong because we start from content and then go to our objectives’.” Objectives should always come before Investments, he added. All event sponsorships should put in mind the following attributes: Analyse < Strategic < Recommend < Negotiate < Activate < Evaluate Stressing on the evaluation metric he explained: Pre-Evaluation Post-Evaluation Quantitative study Impact of Activation Media Value Media Value delivered Price Benchmarking PR value delivered Entitlement Benchmarking Consumer Study Cost Change in brand scores Brand recall Brand awareness Brand affinity Cost of reaching per viewer basically covers the engagement initiatives and social media scores attained by an event agency. Based on the objectives discussed with the clients, we should aim at obtaining where our clients spend keeping into consideration whether they are active or passive spends. Activation Indexes include Engagement, Experience, and Education as the three things that help or end up in the purchasing habit of the consumer or sales of a store Brands these days are evolving in terms of their approach towards sponsorships and spend. A brand needs to own a platform to compete in the present market space. A few examples to cite are Rolex sponsored Wimbledon. It owns the space of tennis. Similarly Cadbury owns ‘Celebration’ as a platform and so does Pepsi, the space of cricket in India. Concluding his talk Vinit said “It is imperative to link the objective with the investment.”
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The ACE 2014 maiden event started with immense spirit of enthusiasm and positive atmosphere with event managers and guests from across the country. The first session commenced with Mr. Subhash Ghai and Terence Lewis being the panelists discussing their thoughts on “The Eventful India per say the future of events in the country.” The session began with Terence sharing useful insights about how entertainment and dance witnessed a meteoric rise over the course of years. Entertainment has been a huge part of Bollywood and television and today experts from diverse fields are coming together to showcase their utmost talent catering to the event industry. He believes that entertainment of the contemporary times has broken all barriers and the future of events lies in technology. Marrying dance and technology has become the earnest need of the hour. Terence mentioned that the fusion to turn out to be glorious it requires a certain amount of homework and visualization on the part of the event managers. An effective point raised by the panelist was the importance of collaborating with each other in order to enhance growth and learning. Terence clearly stated that he as a choreographer cannot grow in isolation and therefore people from the same genre should sit together, brainstorm ideas and share their respective inputs with one another. “In a population of 1.3 billion, one thing that binds us together is entertainment, said Terence Lewis.” The key to reach out to the hearts of several people and be applauded at the same time is to think out of the box and marry the most abstract ideas with events platform and medium. Taking the session forward, he elucidated on ‘customization’ being the key for any act to be unique in the events space. He shared his examples to back his thought and exemplified various instances where he along with his troop has customized their dance performances according to the ideas that their client put forth. Considering that we have a parallel economy in India, Terence believes that the wedding segment has offered him way more than the corporate events he started with. Weddings as we all are aware of are becoming huge and classier by the day. In the presence of renowned wedding planners in the country, Studio Neelabh and Samit Garg, the topic of weddings playing a magnificent role in the event industry was duly touched. Moving on to the man behind some of the blockbusters, Mr.Subhash Ghai, delivered his thoughts and notions on the importance of events in our country relating it to the films he has directed on the account of storytelling that is the most important aspect of events . He believed that he turned the moments of celebration into events and that’s how the journey started. Starting from 80s, Mr. Ghai threw light on how event industry has evolved with the span of time and his tryst with technology being integrated in events majorly. “Definition of good commerce has changed along with the audience of present times. Cinema has also become an event eventually, said Mr. Ghai.” Both the experts in their respective domains mentioned how three dimensional acts will soon become the future of India. Mr. Ghai being a maestro in his space believes that the crux behind an event should always be the art of storytelling. Storytelling plays a great role in the structuring of any event. With changing trends and advancement in technology, this art is being brought forth with some innovation. They also shared their views on ‘growing together’ in this community that can help them build together and better. Sitting together, bringing transparency amongst the event bodies, is what can help event managers grow to the next level. Both Mr. Ghai and Terence concluded on the note of getting to the logistics, strategizing and pre-planning being the key attributes of the 360 degree approach.
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Udaipur is often described as the ‘Venice of the East’ with its beautiful lake palaces and structures dating back to 15th century. This is the only region in Rajasthan that remained unconquered by the Mughal empire. Today, the beautiful city is surrounded by the aravalli range and is a hotbed for tourists who seek history, silence and beauty. In a recent trip to Udaipur, EE got an opportunity to be in a one-to-one conversation with the Maharaj Kumar, The Prince of Mewar – Lakshyaraj Singh about the city and its people. EE: From events perspective, how does Udaipur cater to the youth of today and what other events does the city hosts apart from weddings? LS: “Generally speaking, it is the youth in my age group who get married, so it automatically attracts youths who take their vows here. Apart from that, we do a lot of cultural and traditional ceremonies. When we talk about holi, for most people, it is just about throwing colours. This is where it starts and this is where it ends. For us, it starts almost a month before holi. We call it ‘Holika Dahan’ here. We also celebrate ‘Ashwan Poojan’, Ashwan being the horse played a key role in our survival since early days. Today, we have cars, rail services, flights and so on, but in those days, horse meant everything, from survival, travel, transportation of people, foods to even wars. All these festivals are open to public where they can come, join and celebrate with us.” “Coming to music, we celebrate Kartik Poornima each year that lasts an entire month. On its final day, we hold musical shows, unlike Bollywood, these are connected to our roots, tradition and being played for centuries. Each year, we have a different theme from folk music to sufi. The music festivals we encourage have history, legacy, soul, depth – which have been part of our past. The people who take part in these festivals are of mixed demographics from youths to adults.” “At the same time, we also have brass and Jazz bands, western and Indian orchestras, so our youth is exposed to everything. We are not into something that you find on Indian Idol, although that is important as well, but for us recognizing our roots is vital. Our foundation also holds award ceremonies to recognize heroic acts, journalism, literature, movies – all national, international and regional. For example, nobody knew Abdul Kalam before he became a president, even when his nuclear programme was successful, only a handful knew him. We recognize and acknowledge such people who have done great work and showcase them to the people of Udaipur and beyond.” EE: What kinds of businesses bring revenue to the city? LS: “Tourism is our main breadwinner and wedding is our core competency, which gives a fair share of the pie to every person in the city, so everybody gets benefited.” EE: What is contributing to the tourism of Udaipur? LS: “All of the above mentioned reasons are contributing to the tourism of Udaipur. In fact, Udaipur has been declared the No.1 city by a survey that has placed the city above other prominent places like Sydney, Paris etc. The factors like demographics, geographical location, people, weather, tourism, art and culture, monuments and construction, the time it was established – all contribute to this city’s prominence on a global stage.” EE: Since, Udaipur relies heavily on tourism, Is there a backup plan in case of natural calamities etc.? LS: “Natural calamity happens, there are many circumstances that are beyond your control, you can only prepare for them but you can’t stop them from happening. You can make certain plans and put best practices in place. For example, before monsoon, the local administration prepared a plan for evacuation and conducted a drill with the help of local administration as well as the Indian army. So, Udaipur has been conscious about such factors, however, everything is not within our control and when something happens, we can only stand up and deal with the situation in the best possible way we can.” EE: How closely do you work with the state government? LS: “We work very closely with them, we fairly share a good relationship with the state. We have pioneered a lot of projects working closely with them, it is nice to see the government come to us and share opinions on work that we execute together.” EE: How do you balance preservation versus commercialization? LS: “We earnestly preserve our rich culture and tradition, we don’t put fancy lights on our monuments and ruin it. We are living monuments, we don’t say this used to happen here or that was done here, we still live here, we still breathe the way it was done centuries ago. Our behaviours may have changed but our souls are still the same. For example, the purpose for which Jagmandir was built for, it is still being used for the same.” EE: Are you consciously keeping Bollywood and Brands from entering Udaipur? LS: “There are so many Bollywood events that takes place here but are not publicized as the people who come here are private and want to keep it that way. As for brands and commercialization, this is a city and place where you can actually hear silence, not many places can boast that. If you want all those fancy parties and discotheques, the world is your oyster. The oldest range of aravallis runs through this part of the world. When you talk about Sunburn, you immediately connect with Goa, if Bollywood then it is Mumbai, but you can’t relate anything with silence.” “Everything is not money, you can’t buy silence with money. If you fiddle with your core competency, your DNA, you tend to lose the most important thing that separates you from the rest. There are millions of places where you can go and party but here, you can come with your family, your children, your girlfriend and you will not be bored. Why would you want to ever tamper with your USP. Destroying silence and soul of this place is like someone asking you to change your character and personality.”
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As the IPL just got over and the ISL is days away, EE got in touch with an agency that has worked with all IPL teams on various campaigns for different brands from automobiles to FMCG brands. Founder and Managing Director of Creatigies, Navroze D. Dhondy shared his experience and thoughts on brand associations, experiential marketing and current trends. EE: What got you interested in choosing a career in the agency field? Navroze: “I am originally from Allahabad and while doing my MBA, a friend of mine decided to write a book on Rubik’s cube, as he could solve it in less than a minute. So, we sat down together and wrote every aspect of the move on how to go about solving it and created a book. We put our money behind it, got it printed and launched the book.” He continued, “Once the book was printed and people got a hold of it; inspired by the design and look of the cover, a lot of them walked up to me and asked if I could design books, wedding cards, brochures etc. for them and soon, I was running my small agency from college, making good money. Graduation eventually led me to Delhi with no intention to join any agency. But, as the fate would have it, I ended up choosing an agency called Lintas as my first job even after it paid the lowest of all the offers I had, still I chose the lowest paying job as my heart was there.” EE: In your 3 decades in this industry, do you see a shift in how brands approach towards advertising? Navroze: “I see a huge shift in the whole approach towards advertising. Some companies have understood the importance of advertising against the traditional view of it being just a necessary evil that discourages brands from investing. It has changed dramatically; startups are the biggest investors in advertising. They are jumping into the deep well of the pool.” There has been a shift in the types of media that was available then and what is available today. “Today opportunity list has gone haywire. We have focused media channels for each vertical and communication has changed from being unidirectional, where a brand would dictate what it wants you to see, feel and think, to an engagement model where you will still see TVCs but with a link, number or hashtag. Managing feedback is more challenging than giving information today and the timeline to such interactions is going to collapse further.” EE: Do you think there are brands that resist investing in digital and social media? Navroze: “Yes, there are some brands that are old school in their approach and will take time to adapt. However, we need to understand that some brands may use digital marketing but use social media more selectively. In categories like B2B, they may do digital media in terms of SEO, but prefer not engage with consumers whereas brands like Pepsi and HTC, they engage to millions of people – the engagement is very high.” EE: Are brands increasingly investing in experiential marketing? Navroze: “Clients are now genuinely looking ways to connect and touch with consumers, experience factor has become more and more important. The experiential element has become important for a lot of brands, from whisky, ice cream to a car brand – across the spectrum. There is nothing in the world that matches up to experience. However, one must understand that when you have a powerful impact on a person with experience, it is a double-edged sword; it could be both positive and negative.”
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There are several home-grown challenges that entrepreneurs face when launching in the Indian market. From navigating bureaucracy to raising capital, the list is endless. Here at EE we speak to Madhur Ramani, Co-Founder and Managing Partner, Stratum Consulting who aims to enable FMBs, SMEs, Startups and other businesses achieve goals through a strategic implementation of HR and treat it as a business discipline that focuses on employee motivations and financial profitability. Madhur throws light on some of the challenges plaguing the Indian start-up industry and suggests ways to resolve them. EE:What are the challenges faced by start-ups in India? Start-ups face challenges in a number of areas such as funding, mentorship/ecosystem and talent management amongst others. Although these hurdles are faced broadly by every start up, yet the nature of the challenge varies from sector to sector. For instance a software based start-up requires lesser capital than a manufacturing unit whose requirement is to raise a higher capital. A common challenge faced by start-ups irrespective of sectors is of talent management. While talent management consists of many aspects, three interesting problems that stand out are: Most of the times,mid & junior level people (employees) do not fully comprehend the business objectives and goals of the Start-up. This is due to poorly or miscommunicated information from the founder’s end. I feel there is lack of an objective performance evaluation mechanism in most Start-ups. Those Start-ups that do have performanceevaluation end up make it very rating-driven where the end goal is the annual appraisal. Here the rating-driven performance evaluation mechanism in-turn creates a negative environment for people. This is a primary reason as to why many organizations are altogether scrapping the performance evaluation mechanism. I would say that the culture in an organisation gets built in two possible ways – intentionally or accidentally. Usually organisational culture ends up being accidental, however, founders must understand that if a start-up’s culture is intentionally built it avoids a lot of issues in the future. EE: What according to you are the solutions to overcome these challenges? I would begin by saying that ‘business objectives, vision and mission’ must be defined clearly in writing at the start (and as they evolve). Once they are defined in writing, they need to be constantly communicated to people from the beginning and reiterated time and again. Infact, when candidates are evaluated during the hiring process, the fitment must be judged from the perspective of alignment with the vision, mission & objectives as well in additon to hardskills and softskills required for the role. Once business objectives are clearly defined and communicated to people, their individual goals must be cascaded all the way downards and linked to the organisational objectives in a quantifiable manner. This is the only way to ensure a fair evaluation to some extent.Also, the performance evaluation mechanism should be oriented to actual performance improvement and creating an environment of learning & growth, rather thanjust ratings for the purpose of appraisals. Most founders forget that many a times the issue isn’t with the performance evaluation system itself, but with the people implementing it. Most founders do not understand the importance of ‘intentionally’ building a certain kind of organization culture from the start. As organizations grow, there are chances that the internal culture can also go haywire. In addition, fitment from the perspective of this defined culture needs to be checked during the hiring process as well. EE: How start-ups in India are different from those in other countries and what can we learn from them? A stark difference between start-ups in India and abroad is that most start-ups abroad receive the right kind of guidance / mentorship and undoubtedly a fantastic ecosystem. Besides that, barring the new age tech start-ups in India, a lot of them in India are not looking for an exit, whereas, most start-ups abroad look for an exit after a few years. This ensures that their entire focus is on creating max value in a short amount of time. EE:What financial issues do start -ups face in India and how can they be solved? While there are multiple, process related financial issues in start-ups, a very interesting one is where founders usually have a misguided impression of profitability in the first few years because of not fully accounting for their own cost to company. Many founders forget about the opportunity cost they are losing by not being fully employed elsewhere.As an example, if someone who earned 20 lacs per annum before starting his business draws 5 lacs per annum as salary now in the first year of business,he / she is ignoring the lost opportunity cost of 15 lacs per annum. Ideally, this needs to be factored into the expenses of his / her business before calculating profitability (which would lead to reducing the Start-up’s profibaility by 15 Lacs).
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Popularly known as the father of rural marketing in India, PradeepKashyap has been a catalyst in single handedly paving the way for marketers into uncharted and remote Indian geographies. He has previously chaired the position of President at Rural Marketing Association of India (RMAI)and is the founder and head at ‘Mart’, which was based on ethical and spiritual principles and has since emerged as India’s leading rural consultancy organization. Addressing a congregation of event professionals,Kashyap reveals some hard-hitting facts about our rural hinterland and outlines the imminent at EEMAGINE 2015- the national convention of the event and experiential industry held annually which brings together thought leaders and experts to speak about industry trends and the way forward. He claims, “Today 22% of the rural population is salaried. Since people have moved from wage employment to regular salaries, the purchasing power has sky rocketed. Rural wages have gone up 50% between 2008 and 2013 and hence the bottom of the pyramid is fast taking the shape of a diamond. The penetration and consumption is much higher in Rural India. Eg 75% of the urban population uses toothpaste whereas in rural India it is 45%. So if the usage in rural areas was to go up to 75%, Colgate would have to set up another factory because the population in rural India is three times that of urban, making it a magic multiplier.” He continues, “Where the earlier trend in rural India was to purchase regional brands, people are increasingly buying national brands like P&G and Unilever. Instead of purchasing small packs such as shampoo sachets they are now inclined towards purchasing mega and value packs simply because they have more monies in their pockets and are looking out for better bargains, just like urban folks. They are increasingly buying packaged goods in contrast to the trend of buying loose, as they suspect loose goods could be stale whereas the date of manufacturing on branded products puts this doubt to rest.” He exclaims, “it has become difficult to identify a tailor in a village today as people are increasingly buying readymade garments made by regional brands.” The growth of urban India has been fast but year 2009 onwards, rural India has started growing faster.“Rural is the flavor of the coming decade”, says Kashyap. He explains, “It has grown at the rate of 17% whereas urban growth has been reported at 12%. The per capita income of rural India used to be 50% of the per capita income of urban India, but this has changed dramatically over the last few years. If you look at the spending patterns, the rural consumer in many ways is becoming similar to the urban consumer. Earlier the rural consumer was spending maximum on food, but now he is spending 7% of his income on health.” These changes have proven to be very beneficial for marketers because now they can see the country from largely the same lens. The youth is increasingly more ambitious in rural India with many contesting that “they will only pick up a job that will draw them a salary more than their father’s last drawn salary”. People are becoming more vanity conscious where “women are known to be using Lux on their bodies and Dove on their faces. Because of the Swach Bharat campaign and awareness about sanitation, brands such as Harpic are widely being used”, opines Kashyap. “Aspirations are high, so much so, that even the poorest families in rural India are spending Rs 200 to 300 per month towards English tuitions for their children in the hope that it will fetch them a job in the city”, says Kashyap. He adds, “Today, roads connecting villages to towns are world class and within half hour a person can get to the closest town and be employed. There are 100 million Internet users in rural India and Flipkart has reported more sales from rural India than from the cities.“ Opportunities are massive in rural India and the landscape is changing very dramatically, but it is not the same as working 50 cities in urban India, the deepest penetration of rural India would mean we are talking 600 thousand villages. “The challenge is that of reach, scale and spread. Sadly, there are not enough people who understand this market, not enough agencies and not enough people willing to work this field”, concludes Kashyap
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In an attempt to widen the reach of EDM in the country, Vh1 supersonic recently organized The Club Nights series which was an extension to their IP Vh1 Supersonic festival. The series featured the noted German-American trance legend Markus Schulz who performed in Mumbai, Hyderabad, Pune and Delhi. EE spoke exclusively to Markus Schulz on the highlights of his performance on the tour, engaging elements and the differences between performing in India and abroad. Q- Is this your first performance in India and share with us how excited are you? A-No, actually I have been to India a few times before but it has been quite a while that I have done a proper club tour here. Previously I have played at Suburn festival and also the E3 festival but in the shows the stage was too far away from the audience and that is what interests me about this tour as I will be performing right in front of the audience, in a club setting. As far as the excitement level is concerned I am super excited because there are so many passionate fans out here that have shown to me their enthusiasm and excitement quotient since the gig was announced. All In all there is a lot of excitement and electricity in the air. Q- What are going to be the highlights of your performance in this tour? A-One interesting part of the tour is that all my performance are going to be broadcasted directly on my radio show as well and that I feel is an excellent opportunity for people to know how really passionate are the fans in India and will also widen the reach of the genre of music all over the world. Also, I have brought my entire crew with me so it is going to be a time coded club show and the visuals are going to be interacting with the music. All in all, it is going to be a never like before experience for the audience as they will witness the same experience that get when they go to large music festivals but in a more closely participated ambience that enables them to enjoy music better. Q-What are the key changes that you have noticed while performing in India and abroad? A-The main difference that I have witnessed over the years is the fact that people are really educated here in India. Trance music has such a big online community now and when other performers come to India they think they can play generic set and people will not know the difference however the reality is exactly opposite, you have to challenge fans in India in terms of what you are playing as they are so used to listening the best of trance DJ’s all over the world. Q- What has been your experience with organizers in India? A-My experience here is that I have always received an amazing hospitality. People embrace you here, they want to show you their city and you are so well taken care of and even if you are here for a few hours you are able to absorb a little bit of the culture from outside of the hotel. Obviously the organizers are better prepared and take special care of you and the overall performance elements. Q-If called upon would you prefer to perform to India more often? A-Absolutely, at the beginning of the year we as a team sit down and carve down the places that we want to hit. India has always been one of the places that I would love to come to perform at least once a year if not more often but unfortunately there is only 52 weekends in an year and lot of time is eaten up abroad but India is such a special place to be since the crowd, the hospitality and everything is just spectacular.
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“Forget the Ministry of Information of Broadcasting, we will work with you to make India into a land of experiences,” Amitabh Kant, Secretary, Department of Industrial Policy and Promotion may have made the statement in a light vein but he left key members of the Indian events and experiential business encouraged during his address on the first day of EEMAGINE 2015. He explained that while a growth pace of 9-10 per cent per annum and a young population were two of India’s biggest strengths, these traits also created challenges that required a nation of job creators and not job seekers. Technology played a key part in addressing these challenges but India needed a balanced economy where both services and manufacturing contributed. There are perils of a non-industrialization strategy, and it is imperative now for us to focus on making India a place that is easy to do business in. We need to unleash young entrepreneurial spirit of India so we take on the western world like China has. Prime Minister NarendraModi’s ‘Make in India’ initiative is on these lines. There were four more points on his list that characterized India today. The second on this was opening up India to a global economy. “India must be part of a global supply chain,” he stated, making the third point, adding, “And we are already doing that very well in the way that various multinational companies have relocated their R&D departments to India. The fourth was about India becoming a great centre for innovation, wherein the country had already blended its hardware and software capabilities to become a unique nation that was excelling and growing on both counts. The final point reiterated the importance of the entertainment industry in India. Mr Kant explained that in the government’s plans, tourism and entertainment were two sectors that were integral to the ‘Make in India’ campaign. For every direct job that these sectors created, there were nearly five indirect jobs. “The world is moving from five star hotels to experiences and no other country can provide what India does. We have 5000 years of legacy and heritage and today we are making technological breakthroughs. No other country has this vibrancy, and it is in this spirit that I invite you all to join us as our true brand ambassadors in our Make in India initiative,” Mr Kant concluded.
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